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  • I noticed that you changed all of the demons' pronouns to "it". Did you just do this of your own accord, or was there a discussion that I missed?

    While I know that the demons do not have the same genders as animals, I thought we agreed that we would use "he" or "she" for those that have implied gender (i.e. voice). I'm thinking here of demons such as 8 Ball, Teeth and Pyronica.

    Mainly my concern is that we are referring to these other demons as "it", but Bill Cipher is still a "he" on the wiki. But 8 Ball is just as likely as Bill to be referred to as "he".

    I think that the rule should be: if we do not have any indication of the gender, use "it". However, if the demon's voice is identifiable as human, we use the gender of the voice. We still wouldn't place them in any gender categories; we'd just use the pronouns for convention. Maybe we'll need a voting thread.

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    • In Bill's dimension, there are 14 billion genders, thus their genders are unconfirmed. Just like on Bulbapedia, where we don't randomly assume Pokémon genders based on behaviour patterns. Unless the Pokémon's gender is confirmed in the original Japanese version of the anime, or there is a noticeable gender difference, we use "it" on Bulbapedia to refer to the Pokémon.

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    • Right, but the demons have shown that, when speaking English, they use gender pronouns (as Bill is a "he"). So it's safe to assume that those with identifiable human voices will go by their respective pronouns. Obviously we wouldn't put them in the gender categories; we'd just use the pronouns for convention.

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    • just want to point out pyronica has a bulge...

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    • If we were to take into account things like that, it would get way too hard and we would get too many arguments. A good simple rule is the voice thing.

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    • we should use hair length to determine gender

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    • no

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    • but think about bill has no hair meaning he is a male all the male monsters have no hair pyronica do tho

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    • That's possibly the worst source to determine a character's gender. Female characters could have short hair, and look male...I'm mainly referring to Grenda here (who is actually female).

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    • But some men have long hair. And male collies. And horses. So you can't even make a good guess based on that.

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    • What if their genderless?

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    • I added the "it" to avoid this whole gender issue. Obviously this did not work. Personalty, I'd rather call them by their stereotypical pronoun. But I was thinking on waiting until next episode because they might be called be some sort of pronoun. Seeing that Xanthar and Pyronica are both seen on the floor probably due to getting beat up by Gideon and his goons or Bill. I'm open to other suggestions. A vote would have to be discussed with an admin.

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    • In the very beginning of the episode, Bill says "This is our town now, boys!", thus implying a specific gender. Think about that.

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    • Bodacious T wrote: In the very beginning of the episode, Bill says "This is our town now, boys!", thus implying a specific gender. Think about that.

      That clearly slang, this is simply a wait of calling a group of people. This is further proven by the fact that he called the Eye-Bats "boys" as well.

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    • I think the demons are pretty much Genderless

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    • Grenda is a girl because she has longish hair she is girlish bill has hair but its hidden under his hat he is a maleish bill and pyronica and both maleish

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    • Like I said, I'd rather call them by their stereotypical pronoun. But, with only 6 days until the next episode I say we wait.

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    • Would we agree that, by "stereotypical", you mean the voice actor's gender? So those who have not spoken such as Keyhole and Xanthar would not have a gender-specific pronoun?

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    • I meant by what they look like. There are not enough know voice actors.

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    • What do you mean "What they look like?" I can only think of two (Hectorgon and Pyronica) that have visual clues.

      The voice would probably be most reliable.

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    • "What they look like" means what gender they appear to look like? I never said the voice actors wouldn't be reliable. In fact now that you say that, the voice actor would be a bad idea, Grenda is voiced by a man...

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    • Well, that is a special case, as Grenda states herself to be a girl. What specific things do you mean by "what they appear to look like"? I would assume facial hair in the case of Hectorgon and hourglass figure in the case of Pyronica, but who says that these demons from a complete different dimension would have those same indentyfying characteristics as humans?

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    • just like to point out the person who voices gohan on dragonball z is a girl voices shouldn't have anything to do with it.

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    • I think that they are safe to go by unless stated otherwise. Just like you can assume that Gravity Falls takes place on planet Earth unless it is revealed otherwise.

      Also, I don't know anything about Dragonball Z, but if Gohan is a child, then it is very common for women to voice children regardless of gender.

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    • This is what I'm proposing as their stereotypical pronoun/word

      • Pyronica = her
      • Kryptos = him
      • 8 Ball = him
      • Hectorgon = him
      • Xanthar = him
      • Amorphous Shape = it
      • Pacifier = him
      • Teeth = him
      • Keyhole = him

      "Well, that is a special case [bold added], as Grenda states herself to be a girl." Regular user don't deal with specific cases. Even if I did write the articles in question.

      Note: As I have said before, this can easily be avoided be keeping "it" as there gender until the next episode.

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    • Topdarlingwh
      Topdarlingwh removed this reply because:
      Vandalism. This removal isn't against the guidelines.
      03:01, November 18, 2015
      This reply has been removed
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    • Topdarlingwh
      Topdarlingwh removed this reply because:
      Vandalism. This removal is not against guidelines.
      03:06, November 18, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • YodaWithASoda wrote: GUYS codename kids next door might come back look up - galatic kids next doors 

      That's incredibly irrelevant.

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    • Topdarlingwh
      Topdarlingwh removed this reply because:
      Vandalism. This removal isn't against guidelines.
      03:08, November 18, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Topdarlingwh wrote: This is what I'm proposing as their stereotypical pronoun/word

      • Pyronica = her
      • Kryptos = him
      • 8 Ball = him
      • Hectorgon = him
      • Xanthar = him
      • Amorphous Shape = it
      • Pacifier = him
      • Teeth = him
      • Keyhole = him

      "Well, that is a special case [bold added], as Grenda states herself to be a girl." Regular user don't deal with specific cases. Even if I did write the articles in question.

      Note: As I have said before, this can easily be avoided be keeping "it" as there gender until the next episode.

      Only adding this so that in can be the latest comment. For more info. see above.

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    • What about Xanthar, Pacifier or Keyhole implies a "he"?

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    • And if we're going to call the demons "it", what it to be said of The Horrifying Sweaty One-Armed Monstrosity?

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    • As said the "it pronoun" is my temporary suggestion until the next episode.

      The Horrifying Sweaty One-Armed Monstrosity is male, it is a "close caricature" of Louis C.K.'s head as stated by Alex, Disney etc...

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    • Okay, then. So we will wait and see if the demons are ever referred to with pronouns?

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    • I has already said yes. I am not certain for everyone else.

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    • but calling them it is to gerniac tho ;( the demons refer to themselves as males so should we 

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    • YodaWithASoda wrote:
      but calling them it is to gerniac tho ;( the demons refer to themselves as males so should we 


      Please revisit the episode. Thank you.

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    • YodaWithASoda wrote:
      but calling them it is to gerniac tho ;( the demons refer to themselves as males so should we 


      The only demon who has referred to himself as male is Bill.

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    • but in a promo bill said " ladies and gentlement and thing with 50 faces"

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    • YodaWithASoda wrote:
      but in a promo bill said " ladies and gentlement and thing with 50 faces"


      That is a formal way of talking to a group. We do not know who is are the ladies not the gentlemen. Avoid using spoiler information as evidences.

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    • "Ladies and gentleman" is a common phrase used when talking to multiple people at the beginning of a sentence, but it doesn't give out the exact genders of the demons, so what Bill said wouldn't really help here.

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    • Topdarlingwh
      Topdarlingwh removed this reply because:
      Bill lies all the time. This removal is not against the user guidelines, for said comment is redundant, fake, and not helping us move forward.
      22:41, November 18, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Well, the "next episode" (as referred to in prevous comments) has aired. As far as I can tell from the conversation, no official desicion has been made. We should have an official answer by now.

      I think they should be "it", unless explicitly stated otherwise. What do you all think?

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    • 15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.pngSupportPokémonGamer* 02:39, November 24, 2015 (UTC)
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    • 15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.pngComment — I say "it" until next episode.
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    • 15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.pngComment — We could always use the gender-neutral pronouns of "they/them/theirs," though using "it" is perfectly fine since they're demons.
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    • If you use the default male and female genders as a stereotype, then Pyronica is the only female.

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    • I still think we should go by voice.

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    • Mr B Natural wrote: I still think we should go by voice.

      Look... We're not going by voice actor. We have never done this for any character on the wikia and I see no point in starting now. Besides, this question was ask to Alex already Feel free to ask him again, re-tweet or favorite the question to get his attention.

      Thank you--Topdarlingwh (talk) 20:43, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

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    • We are using the canon genders, not what their genders would be in real life. I see no point in playing by ear, as genders don't work that way in Bill's dimension. Alex Hirsch has decided for there to be 14 billion genders in Bill's dimension by making that post. I see no point in going any further than that.

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    • Note that I don't feel strongly about my opinion, as it is obviously debatable. I'm just saying that if it were up to me, we would go by voice. But you have a good argument too, so I'm willing to have it your way also.

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    • In Bills AMA he said that his species have 8 billion genders so that rule might apply to the demons as well making their genders not so black and white.

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    • Yeah, so we're gonna leave it as "it" until one of them is referred to as "he" or "she".

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    • Well this is awkward I didnt see the other post.

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    • What other post?

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    • PokemonGamers comment about billion genders. Beat me to it I rememembered due to the Gravity Falls Tv Tropes page and character page.

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    • An anonymous contributor
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